Guardian episode 3 & Shen Wei's opinion of Zhao Yunlan

[ratbones]

So I've been rewatching Guardian because of course. (Actually, because I've been feeling a bit lost and stressed, and I'm overdue for a review of canon if I'm going to keep writing fic.) A few days ago I watched episode 3 and, with the help of cyberbrain, pieced together some thoughts more cohesively than I had before, so here are those.

For the first three episodes, Shen Wei has no idea what to make of Zhao Yunlan. He resembles Kunlun in a lot of ways but seems like a stranger in others, and also he's Zhao Xinci's successor/son, which...there's no way Kunlun is that person, right? Zhao Yunlan's suspicions against him don't help. Shen Wei is well aware he's being investigated, and even if he is sort of enjoying the attention in a perverse way, it's not how Kunlun would treat him.

He's also not chosen to tell Zhao Yunlan that he's the Black-Cloaked Envoy, which I think was a choice he could've freely made. Zhao Xinci knew, and based on later events I assume there's no rule that the current SID chief shouldn't know.

But Zhao Yunlan doesn't seem to like the Envoy much and dodges Shen Wei's prompting regarding the humanity of Dixingren, choosing to file it under "Shen Wei is sus" rather than actually converse about it. And aside from Shen Wei just not wanting to be disliked, he's also got concerns. This Kunlun lookalike appeared at the same time as the Longevity Dial and a handful of Dixing criminals. As much as Zhao Yunlan is rightfully suspicious of Shen Wei, Shen Wei is rightfully suspicious of him, too. This is a cluster of strange events, and seems targeted at him. I don't think he believes he's dealing with the real Kunlun, at least not fully, or at least he's trying not to believe it. Even if Zhao Yunlan sneezing on his fish tank and then stealing his cake does seem very in-character for Kunlun. (Never mind his quick intellect and his cleverness with words and the way he ~gazes~ at Shen Wei.)

Then at the end of episode 3, two things happen that seem to shift Shen Wei's stance. First, Zhao Yunlan rushes to rescue Shen Wei from Wang Yike. Shen Wei doesn't need a whole lot of rescuing, but Zhao Yunlan doesn't know that, and when he gets to him, he's very worried. There's a gentle arm around Shen Wei, he asks if he's okay, he makes big worried eyes at him. It's genuine concern, protectiveness even.


Zhao Yunlan is not feeling up Shen Wei's shoulder muscles. Zhao Yunlan is simply worried.

Second, and promptly interrupting their cute moment, Wang Yike accidentally saps Zhang Ruonan's life force to a deadly degree, and Zhao Yunlan is not having it. He's desperate to save Zhang Ruonan's life, and keeps barking orders that everyone but him seems to believe are useless. He's moved to tears by her apparent last moments with Wang Yike. He's not even thinking about arresting Wang Yike; he only cares about protecting the people in front of him. And the person he's trying to save is Haixingren, true, but Wang Yike's emotions are affecting him here, too. It's not just "we shouldn't let an innocent person die," it's "they love each other and this is too tragic for me to watch."


Zhao Yunlan is having an emotion. Lin Jing and Chu Shuzhi don't really want to be here.

Shen Wei's duty doesn't require him to intervene here. If he's trying to play human, he probably shouldn't. But he looks at Zhao Yunlan and then decides to save Zhang Ruonan.


Shen Wei noticing Zhao Yunlan's distress before he heals Zhang Ruonan...also noticing that Zhao Yunlan has conveniently turned his back.

I think Zhao Yunlan made a damn good case for himself here. It's the compassion, and the really intense emotions about other people's suffering, that change Shen Wei's mind. He sees Kunlun in Zhao Yunlan clearly for the first time, and I think he decides to act as Kunlun would want him to.

Shen Wei is pretty convinced of who he's dealing with after this. I believe he's long since figured out that Kunlun was a time-traveler, and the time loop is only a small logical leap when you've gotten that far, so he may have even guessed how this is Kunlun. At the end of the episode, Shen Wei is making calls about moving house, so it seems he's decided to protect/stalk Zhao Yunlan from a shorter distance. We see him touching his pendant through his shirt for the first time, too, unless I missed something.

Of course, episode 4, which I also just watched, is an absolute emotional rollercoaster for Shen Wei, with Zhao Yunlan seeming to pingpong rapidly between suspicion and trust, and showing a lot more concern for Shen Wei's well-being ("Don't you know you could get TETANUS?"). But I think Shen Wei has been set on the path towards trusting Zhao Yunlan...while sort of half-heartedly pretending to be human around him, because he's being targeted by Zhu Jiu all day long, and because Zhao Yunlan isn't a huge fan of the Envoy, and also because he already committed to it and now he's stuck.

Rewatching this show from Shen Wei's perspective is a wild time (and really impressive.) Also I'm not all that good at gathering my thoughts for meta and I've been known to update my perspective, so I stand by none of what I just said.

Bonus thought: cyberbrain and I were talking about the tragic lesbians and questioning why Zhang Ruonan lives for a couple minutes without intervention after being subjected to Wang Yike's power, and we kind of came around to the thought that Wang Yike's power drains away vitality/time from the victim, but doesn't directly kill them. Or something like that. Anyway, I'm forced to conclude that some of those rapists she killed might not have died instantly but had a few minutes to languish with the knowledge that they'd been punished for what they did, and I can't bring myself to feel too bad about it. (This is not true of the last victim, who we see dead right after Wang Yike attacks him.)

Bonus bonus thought: Why does Shen Wei let Wang Yike go? Does he let her go, or does he just let her out temporarily to visit Zhang Ruonan? These early cases are written to mirror certain elements of the SW/ZYL relationship, and in this one, Wang Yike is Shen Wei's foil: Zhang Ruonan is the first person to see her power and not fear her, and possibly the first person in Dragon City to be nice to her at all, and in return, Wang Yike is intensely loyal and will do anything in her power to protect Zhang Ruonan. I think Shen Wei sees the parallel and feels a kinship, but is he kind to her because of that, or because he's trying to live up to Kunlun's standards of mercy, or is sneaking law-bending kindnesses within the Black-Cloaked Envoy's nature all along? I guess probably all three, a bit, but let me know your thoughts.

Comments

[clevermanka]

I love this, thank you! And very timely. I just started rewatching too, but I'm still a couple episodes behind you. If you're going to be posting rewatch notes it'll inspire me to keep up.

He sees Kunlun in Zhao Yunlan clearly for the first time
Oh I LOVE this.

why Zhang Ruonan lives for a couple minutes without intervention after being subjected to Wang Yike's power
Maybe a glancing touch wasn't quite enough to kill a human? Flowers yes, a person no. Maybe Shen Wei can bring someone back from the brink of death as long as they haven't fully passed over? Like with Butler Wu? That's what I imagined when I referenced it in Deconstruction. Sort of a "mostly dead is slightly alive," thing, like in The Princess Bride. 😄

As to why Shen Wei lets her go (and I think he does let her go permanently), I think the first two definitely. I don't know if you've read Deconstruction, but I reference these two in it and made Shen Wei's release of Wang Yike a turning point for him in his role as Hei Pao Shi.

[ratbones]

Ooh, nice, accidental synced rewatch! I don't have particular plans for regular posts but I'd like to post some more as I go along, assuming I find interesting things to say...hopefully I will. (I'm sure I'll be rewatching pretty slowly, so you shouldn't have trouble keeping pace, at any rate! :D) Glad you enjoyed the post, too!

Sort of a "mostly dead is slightly alive," thing
Aaaaa lol! Yes, this makes sense to me as well. Wang Yike is intent on killing those boys dead and not letting them get away; she just briefly touched Zhang Ruonan by accident. That might make a big difference. ...Dixing powers are delightfully nebulous, for writing purposes.

I intend to read Deconstruction but haven't gotten there yet! But it's nice to know we were thinking along parallel lines independently, that kind of lends credence to the idea that things are shifting for Shen Wei here.

[clevermanka]

Dixing powers are delightfully nebulous, for writing purposes.
THANK DOGS 😄

Hope you enjoy Deconstruction if you ever get around to it, but no worries if you don't. It's definitely a monster of a fic and I never expect anyone to read anything.

[trobadora]

Huh, we have very different takes on when Shen Wei works out the time loop! I'm certain Shen Wei had already figured it out before he met Zhao Yunlan (because lollipops, guns, and Kunlun really not being subtle throwing out things like "ten thousand years" and "you're still like this" and acting like he already knows Shen Wei), and that made it even harder for him to figure out how to deal with present-day Zhao Yunlan. This guy is going to become Kunlun! But how? Shen Wei has no idea how to act in order to set Zhao Yunlan on the right path, and he can't trust him as he is at that point, yet, and he has him back but also not, and it's all a big mess.

You've got a great point that Zhao Yunlan being visibly affected by the Zhang Ruonan/Wang Yike tragedy is really important. And also about Wang Yike being a foil for Shen Wei! I had never thought of that before, but it's so true. I do think Shen Wei would have acted the same way either way, because kindness and mercy are part of who he is, but here he gets a hint that Zhao Yunlan, even this early on when he's still all about arresting Dixingren, is not immune to being emotionally affected by them.

I think Shen Wei let Wang Yike go because she didn't use her powers selfishly, only for the person she loves, and because he isn't worried about her posing a danger, especially not after she's hurt Zhang Ruonan. And maybe most of all because he sees himself and Kunlun in them, and he's not going to be the one to separate them, not when it's not necessary - he won't inflict that pain on them.

[ratbones]

Oh, hmm, I guess this makes sense through that lens too! I think Shen Wei figured out time travel was involved before episode 1, but I don't think he'd realized that it was in the future for Zhao Yunlan at that stage because of him fishing for whether Zhao Yunlan recognizes his name, etc., and then thinking "I hope you still remember our arrangement to meet" (or something close to that, I don't remember the exact wording). Either way, he's definitely confused and distraught by Zhao Yunlan's differences from Kunlun in the early episodes. (You also have a point about him being worried about affecting the time loop, that's definitely another reason for his secret-keeping at some point or another.)

I was wobbly as to whether Shen Wei would've acted to help Zhang Ruonan regardless, but I think you're convincing me that he would have. I get the sense that it's not something he actually has to face very often, and so it was a decision to be made in the moment, not an automatic reaction, so in that way Zhao Yunlan's feelings prompted him to act...but if Zhao Yunlan hadn't been there at all? Yeah, he probably would ultimately have chosen to help, if possible.

And maybe most of all because he sees himself and Kunlun in them, and he's not going to be the one to separate them, not when it's not necessary - he won't inflict that pain on them.
Ohh, THAT is not a framing I'd thought of, but yes. Now that you say it, obviously yes. <3 (Definitely helps that Wang Yike isn't likely to reoffend, too, yeah.)

[china_shop]

This is excellent food for thought! I'm currently writing a fic set early on which is dealing with some of these issues (though not ep 3), so this is very timely for me. ♥

FTR, I'm with Trobadora on Shen Wei having figured out the time loop in advance, but that doesn't mean he's not thrown by how it's playing out.

Shen Wei's duty doesn't require him to intervene here. If he's trying to play human, he probably shouldn't. But he looks at Zhao Yunlan and then decides to save Zhang Ruonan.

*rewatches* I've always thought he saves Zhang Ruonan because he knows her and likes her, and sympathises with her and Wang Yike. Wang Yike is tearfully repentant, and Zhang Ruonan doesn't deserve to die. I thought Shen Wei's glance towards Zhao Yunlan was to see if he could get away with doing it under the SID's noses. (I don't know if he'd have done it if it had meant blowing his cover...?)

ETA: and in this one, Wang Yike is Shen Wei's foil: Zhang Ruonan is the first person to see her power and not fear her, and possibly the first person in Dragon City to be nice to her at all, and in return, Wang Yike is intensely loyal and will do anything in her power to protect Zhang Ruonan.

I really love this! <3

[ratbones]

Oh hey, I hope the post sparked useful thoughts then! :D

FTR, I'm with Trobadora on Shen Wei having figured out the time loop in advance, but that doesn't mean he's not thrown by how it's playing out.
Agree to disagree on the details of this, but Shen Wei taking notice of Zhao Yunlan's Kunlun-esque compassion here works under both theories, I guess!

Shen Wei is definitely taking stock of whether Zhao Yunlan is watching, there. He doesn't want to blow his cover, that's part of it. I think Shen Wei does try to be impartial - I don't think he ever tries to be unsympathetic, but at least impartial in terms of not going easier on people he likes - but I can see the argument that he'd have saved Zhang Ruonan regardless of Zhao Yunlan, if he could, because it's just the right thing to do, no matter who she is. I feel Zhao Yunlan's reaction had some effect in spurring him into action, but it's not as if he did it purely for him.

(After noting their similarities, I'm enjoying imagining some AU where Wang Yike and Shen Wei get along well and he's a mentor for her as a Dixingren living in Haixing. She really could've used that.)

[china_shop]

I think Shen Wei does try to be impartial - I don't think he ever tries to be unsympathetic, but at least impartial in terms of not going easier on people he likes

Yes, 100% agreed on that -- but that's in his duties. Zhang Ruonan hasn't committed any crimes, and if she had, she wouldn't be under his jurisdiction. She's already suffered terribly. And she's someone he has a personal/professional relationship with, feels responsible for, and likes (and, as you say, he sees a lot of his own story in hers). Even if he'd save a complete stranger under the same circumstances, I can't see how all that background wouldn't factor in to his willingness to risk using his powers under the SID's nose. Idk...

# pre-breakfast waffle, leaves grains of salt for taking with

[ratbones]

Ahh true, Zhang Ruonan shouldn't have to suffer for Wang Yike's behavior, one way or the other. And, like...Wang Yike accuses Shen Wei of failing Zhang Ruonan in some way, and I don't think Shen Wei can possibly agree with that, as he had no idea about the sexual assault even after it happened, but he probably feels more responsibility for her, as a coworker and somewhat of a friend, than if she was a stranger.

...Though I also think he ultimately would have helped a stranger, if he could manage it at all, in the context of "Dixingren accidentally harms Haixingren with their power." *big shrug???*

[china_shop]

...Though I also think he ultimately would have helped a stranger, if he could manage it at all, in the context of "Dixingren accidentally harms Haixingren with their power." *big shrug???*

I was wondering about that, too. I couldn't think of any examples. Can you?

He doesn't move to save Butler Wu until the SID plead for it, but he almost certainly would have tried once he'd taken the body away, if only because he wanted to ask about Ding Dun's expedition. (And I can't remember -- what causes Butler Wu's death? That wasn't a Dixingren attack, was it?)

ETA: I also think that whether or not he would have acted to save random victim #254 depends on how critical he believes it is that he keep his Envoy identity secret... if the fate of the world depends on it (which you could argue it does, if the timeline is upset and ZYL doesn't go back and save the young Envoy's life, so they can retrieve the Hallows together)...

[ratbones]

Yeah nope I've got no examples! I'll keep an eye out as I rewatch. Re: Butler Wu, some guy who works for one of the kidnapping victims' families tries to shoot Wu Xiaojun (with, I think, a pistol crossbow, which is just...a fabulously weird detail; possibly civilians can't carry guns but can carry those things? Anyway, digressing) and his dad takes the shot for him. So that's an accidental wounding, sort of, in which Shen Wei didn't independently intervene, sort of...but yeah, since Lao Wu is Dixingren, Shen Wei would've been able to take him away and heal him elsewhere, so that one also isn't conclusive.

I guess my thinking based on those two examples is that he's making these decisions in the moment, and it's not something he has a firm stance on. Yeah, there are times when his need to preserve his secret identity might be the most important factor for him. He's never faced with that choice more clearly than with Zhang Ruonan, as far as I can recall.

[nnozomi]

This is a great read.
Rewatching this show from Shen Wei's perspective i
I think for me this will result (for the first 1/3 or so, anyway) in either "Oh Shen Wei" (*sniff*) or "Shen Wei for crying out loud just tell him the truth already" the whole time but it's worth a try.
I do think essentially Shen Wei realizes omigod, it's Kunlun at the moment of their handshake in the first episode--I don't think he'd be so disconcerted otherwise--but I can see it taking a while for him to sort himself out thereafter, figuring out, as you describe it, whether this is really Kunlun or just someone who looks a whole lot like him or even a descendant, what happened/will happen with the time loop, whether Kunlun knows who he is (who Shen Wei/the Envoy is or, for that matter, knows whether he's Kunlun himself)... . You could probably make arguments for a lot of small moments of Shen Wei's behavior over the first few episodes based in subtle shifts in his perception of Zhao Yunlan.
(Also, his cognitive dissonance realizing that yes, Kunlun really is thatZhao Xinci's son must have been something to behold. wow.)
Re Wang Yike, I agree with Trobadora's analysis above, and also very much with your point that "these early cases are written to mirror certain elements of the SW/ZYL relationship," which could be quite a meta of its own.
Now I really want a fic which goes into detail on the delicate balance pre- and during canon between Dixingren living secretly in Haixing (the ones who mostly don't come to the SID's attention) and the Black-Cloaked Envoy's governance of them--how he inspires fear and obedience while also empathizing with them in his own complex way, and how much they see of this, and who they might be...

[ratbones]

I think for me this will result (for the first 1/3 or so, anyway) in either "Oh Shen Wei" (*sniff*) or "Shen Wei for crying out loud just tell him the truth already" the whole time but it's worth a try.
Yes, there has been and probably will continue to be a lot of that for me, too, lol. A bunch of the weirder choices he makes in the first few episodes make a lot more sense in the context of him sizing Zhao Yunlan up re: Kunlun! But they also come with substantial "oh Shen Wei". :D

You could probably make arguments for a lot of small moments of Shen Wei's behavior over the first few episodes based in subtle shifts in his perception of Zhao Yunlan.
Yeah, this! I think we're pretty much in agreement here. Shen Wei definitely recognizes Kunlun and initially freaks out because of that (I had said to cyberbrain, on rewatching ep 1, that I'm pretty sure he first recognizes him from his voice rather than his face, even) but then goes through a bunch of mental and emotional loops trying to connect this guy up to Kunlun in some logical way. As to what degree he's certain that Zhao Yunlan is/will be Kunlun at any point...I'm mostly guessing at that. I just think he's not 100% sold on it at a few points in the first few episodes.

Oh man, I sort of want to properly write up the parallels to SW/ZYL from these several cases, but I'm not sure when/if I'll get to that. Idea free to a good home. Li Qian's chat with Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan on the rooftop in episode 2 where she confesses to using the Longevity Dial is an absolute gut punch through that filter, for starters.

I would really enjoy that fic as well! I can see a lot of different possible takes on how the Envoy interacts with that community (to whatever extent he does) and how he thinks about them and how they think about him...he obviously has no desire to drag them back to Dixing, but that may mostly be obvious to us, not them.

[china_shop]

Li Qian's chat with Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan on the rooftop in episode 2 where she confesses to using the Longevity Dial is an absolute gut punch through that filter, for starters.

Definitely. I was just saying to Trobadora the other day:

"In your understanding, what you fear is not death; it is separation. You just can't accept that your grandmother suddenly left you," says Zhao Yunlan (Kunlun) to Li Qian in front of Shen Wei (ep 2). Ooof! (Like, all the analogies that Shen Wei makes are more or less obvious, but this unknowing one by Zhao Yunlan slides in under the radar with a scalpel.)

[ratbones]

Oh yes, that one! Oof! Also (don't have the exact quote at hand/in my head) Li Qian talking about how the person beside her looked like her grandmother, but didn't recognize her or love her, as Shen Wei stands beside a Kunlun lookalike who doesn't know him. *sobs*

[china_shop]

Yes! That one's a total gut punch. (I think that's partly there to mislead us into thinking Zhao Yunlan has lost his memory, like Li Qian's Nana.) And you know, whether or not Shen Wei knows ZYL is Kunlun, it certainly must feel like that.

(I think what you see as doubt about whether it really is Kunlun, I see as warring between Shen Wei's logical self and his feelings/yearning, fwiw.)

[elenothar]

Zhao Yunlan is not feeling up Shen Wei's shoulder muscles. Zhao Yunlan is simply worried

😂

I really liked reading your rewatch post (I'm doing one myself at the moment, though I stalled out a bit before one of the arcs I like less), especially since I am, in all ways, far too focused on Shen Wei so any analysis of what could be happening in his brain is interesting to me.

or is sneaking law-bending kindnesses within the Black-Cloaked Envoy's nature all along?

I like to think so, given that Shen Wei went straight from idealistic bby!Shen Wei to enforcer in Haixing as per show canon. Without 10,000 intervening years to harden him, I can't really see him come down hard on Dixingren who aren't doing anything wrong aside from living in Haixing. One thing to maybe support that is that Zhao Yunlan hasn't actually met HPS in his two (I think? Might be making that up) years as Chief of the SID. Yes, that's partly because there was just generally less Dixing-related unrest, but it also points to Shen Wei dealing with what he does notice very much on his own without involving other official authorities, which would leave him leeway to act as he deems fit in each case.

[ratbones]

In fairness to Zhao Yunlan, they're nice shoulder muscles. :D

I'm pretty focused on getting a clear handle of what's going on in Shen Wei's funny lil brain this time around! Glad the post was a fun read. As for stalling out...I'll have to drag myself through those episodes in the late 20s/early 30s where Shen Wei is chained to the Sky Pillar at some point in the future, sigh.

I like to think so, given that Shen Wei went straight from idealistic bby!Shen Wei to enforcer in Haixing as per show canon.
Yeah, that's true. Bb!SW is already pretty harsh on people he sees as wrongdoers, but I think he never meant for the treaty to seal all Dixingren underground and he's not really enthusiastic about enforcing that when he himself doesn't have to obey it. I'm not sure that would usually apply to Wang Yike, who did actually murder three Haixingren (far from innocent people, though). But you bring up an interesting point - yeah, he really does seem to be working independent of the SID, probably having had irreconcilable differences with Zhao Xinci, which suggests he'd rather enforce his own form of justice than have to obey the official rules.

[marycrawford]

I'm sorry you've been feeling lost and stressed, and I sympathize. This is a lovely post, and sigh, that last image of Shen Wei noticing Zhao Yunlan's distress is So Very.

Rewatching this show from Shen Wei's perspective is a wild time (and really impressive.)
That's so true, and it's so rewarding!

I wonder about Wang Yike too - it feels like letting her go just for a visit is more justified on a law & order level, given that she did kill those students, but OTOH the emotional arc feels much more satisfying if Shen Wei chooses to let her go free, and live by Zhang Ruonan's side.

[ratbones]

I'm sorry you've been feeling lost and stressed, and I sympathize.
<3

Glad you enjoyed the post! That screencap is indeed...yes. Quite.

That's so true, and it's so rewarding!
The show gives us *so much* that only makes sense when you understand Shen Wei's full perspective, it's fantastic.

I'm with you on Wang Yike, I can't decide. She did intentionally hunt down and kill people, Haixingren even, and it doesn't seem like Shen Wei to completely overlook it just because they were terrible people...except he was kind of a teenage vigilante himself, wasn't he, so maybe, especially if he thinks about what he'd do if Kunlun/ZYL was assaulted...aaaah I can't quite make up my mind. I think the show means to imply Wang Yike is free for good, but even that isn't really clear to me.

[china_shop]

Another data point is lao-Chu, who murdered his brother's murderer (as well as some innocent guards). He did his time, and Shen Wei doesn't hold his crime against him, and even says his motives were understandable. Maybe the terrible accident with Zhang Ruonan is enough, given Wang Yike's distress.

[ratbones]

Hmm, yeah, that does support him showing criminals mercy in the past. Lao Chu killed some innocent people, too, which surely makes his crime worse (corresponding to him serving time, vs Wang Yike being let go right away? possibly.)

[tinny]

Ooooh such good thoughts! I am much too lazy to do any deep-diving into Guardian canon, but this is absolutely fascinating and I believe every word.

(And will totally update my opinion on things later if anyone makes me believe anything else. Yay for fluid opinions! :D)

[ratbones]

Aww, glad it worked for you! Deep-diving is my natural way of enjoying a thing so I'm happy to share!

Lol yeah I share the fluid opinions thing, absolutely.